tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC April 2, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
fort hood. certainly those that are there should stay put until law enforcement releases. let me go to my colleague in washington, chuck todd. >> thank you, reverend sharpton. as you know we are following this breaking news situation in fort hood. this is what we know at this time. fort hood in texas is on lockdown. as many as eight people possibly wounded, taken to hospitals. there may have been two shooters. one has been taken into custody. this has been confirmed by nbc news, possibly shot and wounded. one is still on the loose. similar to when there were 13 people killed, by the way, this is not new to fort hood when 13 people killed in 2009, not the type of flashback people at fort hood want to be thinking about. the president is traveling in
chicago. he has been informed of this. he has been delaying the appearance at fundraisers. the secretary of defense chuck hagel has been informed of the current situation. the entire fort hood is on lockdown. i want to bring in msnbc contributor and former fbi profiler, are you still with me? so, clint, describe exactly who on fort hood is doing this -- who is involved in trying to track down the second shooter? this is obviously being handled by military police. >> we have a number of agencies right now, chuck, as you and most of america know in november 2009 we had the terrible shooting where 13 were killed by a u.s. army major psychiatrist.
at that time as well as right now the forces to be brought in to -- the first responders are likely going to be uniformed police department as uniformed government police department right there on base. they are the same individuals that engaged in the shootout with nidal hasan back in 2009. you also are going to have military police that have the capability on that base of responding. so they are going to be your rapid deployment forces. then, of course, they can call in local law enforcement from outside the base, the fbi will be responding, atf will be responding. there will be a number of agencies that are coming but right now that search is going to be really in the hands of the uniform police and military police and probably army all that are going to be doing at the same time there is going to
be a command post set up. every agency bringing in law enforcement to help search and hunt whether s.w.a.t. teams or search dogs to try to put a circle around the area where they think the second shooter might be and then close that ring in. so number one make sure that he or she doesn't get a chance to shoot anyone else and get that person in custody. >> so when you hear that this is two shooters and there is confirmation it is two shooters it automatically is some form of a conspiracy. what does it tell you? >> there is. as you know just yesterday the fbi in kansas city put out an alert all through military bases around the country concerning an individual, a man who attempted to join the army and then it was
found out that he had at least on communications with other individuals indicated that he wanted to commit some type of jihad, some type of terribly violent act and fort hood was mentioned. what makes that more relevant is that the same individual allegedly contacted people he knows within the last few days and said his good byes to them. >> let me pause you right there because actually pete williams, my colleague, nbc news justice correspondent has been in touch with federal authorities about the specific incident. federal law enforcement officials say there is no connection between thet shooting at fort hood that they seem to know this and the report about the fbi lookout notice that you just brought up describing how this person wanted to do a, quote, fort hood style shooting. according to a law enforcement official close to pete williams when asked about the person who
was the subject of the lookout notice he got the answer, we know who that guy is. they don't give us more information. that sounds like they know where he is and must have him under surveillance. >> then the next challenge, of course, is to make sure this is not related to him in any shape or form. talking with him or conspiring with him there is two different investigations going on. number one is trying to identify and arrest the shooter within the base. the second is getting information. we are told one shooter is down and maybe in custody. he would have been debriefed by law enforcement trying to find out who he is working with. >> if still alive and conscious at that point. you are putting together obviously everything as a string here. let's go back to the fact that there were two people here.
two people makes a conspiracy by some definition. so you talked about going down the one trail, the fbi lookout. so far federal law enforcement officials believe there isn't a connection. where is the next place you go? >> if there is no connection then we have to rely upon any other intelligence that might be out there of someone perhaps totally unrelated to the situation you and i are talking about who may have been planning something like this. again, what information they are able to gather on the scene. if one or two people got on the base to commit the shooting they had to get there somewhere, someway. they had to have a car or a vehicle. the person in custody probably has some type of identification on him or will be fingerprinted and law enforcement will find out who he is very quickly. so what they will be trying to do is identify the person they have in custody and then identify his circle of friends
and acquaintances and contacts, expand that out to find out if there is a second shooter who it might be. >> let's reset things a little bit. it was just after 5:00 local time at fort hood when a notice went out public that all fort hood personnel were told to shelter in place, close doors and stay away from windows. here is what we know now. as many as eight people wounded at this point. there are two suspects, one apparently is in custody, was shot and wounded, apparently. the other person is still at large and that is what is going on right now. that's why there is still a shelt in place. that is why the base is saying there is an active shooter and an attempt to apprehend. continue with me here is clint van vant former fbi profiler, somebody we spend a lot of time with on situations like this.
we have a little bit of an update in here. we know three people confirmed right now injured. we do not know the severity of their injuries. and that one of the shooters in the words of a law enforcement source has been neutralized. when you hear the words neutralized it means they have apprehended in custody some sort of wounding, i guess. >> neutral can have a lot of different meanings. wounded and in custody. he is being debriefed right now. he still has hand cuffs on him as we try to figure out who he is and what is going on here. that term shouldn't give us any real definition right now other than neutralize meaning he is not in a position or does not have the ability to shoot
anybody else at this point. >> a few other facts that people should know the central texas college campus had also been evacuated due to the shooting. i want to bring in another contributor here, nbc law enforcement analyst jim kavanagh. jim, i know you are not dealing with a lot of facts here. you got about as very few facts we think we know what is going on, an active attempt to apprehend neutralize the second shooter. from what you have gathered from the information you have, what more information do you want to have to get a better understanding of the situation? >> you can count on pete williams. ehe has good sources and he is telling us the fbi may know where the other guy is who was making somewhat suicidal
comments from kansas city. just like clint talking about i gave a talk about this very thing to police officers and echiefs at one of the conferences years ago. what they do is they exploit the information at the scene as quick as they can. when you have the shooter down like you asked which is a great question, what do you do now? you go right for his wallet, his cell phone and his identification and his vehicle. who is he? and who is he talking to? who is he in contact with? is he a lone shooter like the navy yard shooter that you covered extensively, chuck, or is he connected to another criminal for a criminal reason or revenge motive or terrorism or anything like that? that is critical for law enforcement, tactical officers, investigators, federal law enforcement agents to get there quickly and exploit it.
don't be frozen by it is a crime scene. even if the guy is dead you have to go to the wallet and i.d. and phone and exploit it and get it to the law enforcement officers. who is this guy? i can tell you that on the posts around the country, military posts and navy posts they are getting tight because you never know what is going on. you don't know if things can happen in multiple places. you always have to plan like it could be somewhere else. >> you get flashbacks, all of us do, to what happened in 2009. that was a single individual, killed 13 people, wounded dozens of others. one would assume there was probably new protocols put in place to deal with a situation like this. what are some of the changes that you think they were putting into place that may accelerate the ability to keep this situation from being another
incident like 2009? >> you know, i think they tightened up on their background stuff because hasan had come to c.i.d.'s attention, the fbi's attention. there was some notice about his activity. i think they tightened up on that front. i can tell you i have been going on and off military bases as a law enforcement officer for four decades. i just don't think that the security there is as tight as it ought to be. that is just me. i'm not a general. those are big cities and it is very difficult. as long as we are involved in wars and terrorism that security has got to be a little tighter. >> especially at fort hood. i have another update here. the fbi is now officially on the scene inside of fort hood to help secure the scene and support military law enforcement there. i want to go to peter alexander
at the white house. we know the president is traveling tonight in chicago. obviously the white house travels with him. >> that is exactly right. we know the president has been notified of the situation taking place at fort hood right now. he will continue to get updates according to his deputy press secretary traveling with him. be very clear, for this white house this is very close to the heart. this is a topic they have dealt with repeatedly over the course of the president's time in office. he said that day when he learned the news of the children that were killed in newtown, connecticut that was the worst day of his presidency. when you consider the number of mass shootings this president has been in office. they have fort hood, aurora, newtown, tucson as well. the president said these
americans didn't die on a foreign field of battle, they were killed here on american soil in the heart of this great state and great american community. those are the thoughts in the mind of the president and of his advisers right now as they hear news of anothert shooting taking place in an american community and on an american military base. >> and the fact that it is the second one at the same military base. stand by, keep trying to get more information about what the white house is being informed about. i want to bring you back in here a little bit. when you hear the situation, to go back, the fbi now being on the scene assisting military personnel, the uniform military police, what is their capabilities of investigation? how much do they need the fbi to basically speed up what you used to do for a living, profiling the situation and trying to get
an idea of who these guys are? >> in this case you have considered a crime on a government reservation. the fbi has lead agency responsibility for investigation and prosecution. lead agency doesn't mean you don't need other help. there is an initial response of fbi agents. the reality is people will be coming from home. s.w.a.t. teams will have to get their gear and head to the base to participate in the search. the fbi is going to need every agency [ inaudible ] military police, civilian code. the uniform police officers that are on the base to engage in 2009 that saw 13 members of the military killed and dozens
wounded. these same officers have the initial responsibility. everybody else will come to back them up. the fbi will bring in every resource they can. the president and the secretary of defense will say give it everything we got. the reality is men and women showing up right now will put every resource they have on the ground to try to identify this potential second shooter. >> i want to pause you there. i want to go to my colleague at the pentagon. the pentagon monitoring this extremely closely. i assume you hopefully have a little more information. >> u.s. military officials that it is believed although the base at fort hood remains on lockdown and search continues building by building, room by room for possible shooters. it is believed there was a
single shooter and that shooter it appears has been shot and killed. it still remains an active shooting scene as the search continues for any other possible shooters. according to the officials as many as eight people were wounded and it's believed that four of them have been -- are in grave or critical condition as a result of this shooting. again, the search continues on the base because it is not clear whether there were others involved. no motive, no identification of the shooting as of yet. although there was some discussion among military officials about the possibility that this was another sort of jihadist attack as we have seen in 2009 when army major nidal hasan opened fire at the base killing 13 and wounding 32. he since has been convicted and is awaiting his death sentence on death row in military custody. so that's the latest we have
that the search continues but it is believed one shooter. >> so your sources are telling you one shooter -- because there has been talk of two for quite some time. one shooter and the shooter is dead? >> it is believed only one shooter. i have to emphasize the base remains on lockdown. in the chaos they were getting conflicting reports about who was where, when? people were taken into hospital in private vehicles so it was unclear what the casualty count was. at one time it was as high as 14 or 15. now it is believed that eight wounded and four in grave condition at this hour and the search continues. it is believed, as you say, one possible shooter who is reportedly dead. >> and is the pentagon operating on the assumption that this is a member of the militaryt that did this? >> no clue. >> no clue at this point.
>> as far as the information that we have. >> important piece of new development there. one shooter contrary to earlier reporting. people sometimes hear a second shot. jim kavanagh, this happens a lot. we know that first reports are not always the most accurate. now saying it is believed to be a single shooter. they are double checking to make sure there isn't a second shooter. again, we heard what happened during the navy yard shooting when people thought there was a second shooter. in some ways they would hear the gun shots and it was eyewitness reports that were incorrect. >> it happens. you get there, it is chaotics. witnesses see different things. rarely do you get there and just one guy. you are told one guy unless it is quickly solved. but i have experienced that many times. that report from jim right from
the pentagon command i would say that is pretty solid, about as solid as you are going to get. they are saying one shooter and he is deceased. the tactical teams have to continue on because they have the eyewitness reports there could be a second shooter and they have to clear the area where this occurred. could it be a civilian employee or military person. last week a truck driver killed a sailor by accessing a navy base there. sometimes even a stranger got on a base, a truck driver got on through. we have civilian employees, military personnel, a truck driver in norfolk last week. it could be anything. it is just hard to tell. with one shooter the motives could be anything, as well. >> this, we talk about our security and concerns about terrorism. we talk about all of these things. every security person will tell me the thing we worry about the most is the lone gunman.
conspiracies in many ways our government is very good at rooting out. it is the lone gunman and the lone terrorist actors that are the hardest to deal with. >> exactly. if you look at virginia tech look at that horrific thing and aurora, colorado. these are single shooters. they come loaded. they have all the ammo and the guns. they are ready to kill and ready to die. so one guy can wreak havoc. conspiracies get complicated and clumsy. there are a lot of moving parts to a conspiracy. if a terrorist organization gets involved those can be extremely deadly. we know we havet at least eight people injured and one person is deceased. let's hope that's the end of it. and then the military
authorities and fbi can all put this together and, you know, see what is at the root of this. >> here is what we know. let me give you the report. a u.s. military official telling nbc news that the shooter who is down appears to be the sole shooter at fort hood. they continue to clear the area, search buildings. it is a standard operating procedure. right now our sources are telling us at least one dead and it could be that the only person dead is the shooter. there are multiple injuries, according to our sources at least eight. and described to us, four of them are being described as very serious. i want to bring in director of operations for the fbi. buck, let's talk about the fbi role on a military installation
here. is there anything that changes on a crime scene because it is on a military installation? >> if it is a civilian whether contractor or a visitor or somebody who intruded then at the appropriate time the tactical lead would change from the military to fbi. and it would be the fbi's responsibility to investigate. if there is a survivor and in this case reporting there isn't to bring a criminal case in federal court. if it is a military person then it is going to be up to the military with support and assistance of the fbi, atf and local authorities to resolve the matter and get everybody that has been wounded taken care of and making sure they have cleared the area of where there are no more active shooters and that evidence is gathered at
each location where the shooter actually fired his weapon. and then there will be be a determination which would be primarily by the military on how the weapon got there because soldiers aren't allowed to be armed on the base unless they are in a guard duty status as an np. they don't just use regular soldiers, they use trained nps and contract police personnel. >> tell me this about the military police and the differences in their capabilities from what the fbi can do. they have the same level of investigative ability? or is this something they need the fbi there to help them with? >> military police would not be doing the investigation. they would be the army c.i.d. command. they work very closely with the fbi. they have very similar training. the vast majority of them came out of the mp ranks.
many have attended the fbi national academy. and so they are very used to working together. >> so this is fbi eequivalent? >> yeah. they have the -- they don't have the total range of capabilities that the bureau has but they have a very significant capability. and they work with the fbi all the time. and the fbi forensics and technical capabilities can be brought to support them. but if it is a military person they will have the entire responsibility including the base commander who will be doing administrative review to determine how it happened and was there a break down in their security responsibilities. and if so is there something that needs to be fixed or somebody needs to be held accountable? >> we are dealing with fort hood a second time obviously it will
set off a red flag for folks like how did it happen again. >> fort hood is the largest military base in the united states. it has thousands of people in and out of there every day. it is a corps headquarters. two active divisions there plus many specialized separations. to say you are going to keep everybody off is unrealistic. you keep trying. you don't let anybody on if they go through the channels. but you can walk into the base from a remote location and, you know, actually get on without there being confronted. >> i'm going to stop you -- >> had a pass to be on base and able to smuggle in a gun. >> we are going to take a quick break. as you know it appears to be a single shooter, not two. that shooter according to our sources may be dead. we will see.
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we are following breaking news out of fort hood. another shooting at fort hood. there are at least eight people injured from the shooting, one dead. it is believed according to our sources that the dead individual is the shooter and is the lone shooter. yes, there were earlier reports that claimed there were two shooters. just like in many of these situations that we have all unfortunately been through too many times some of the early reports about a secondt shooter turned out not to be true. they are still combing the base. it is still a lockdown situation to see if there is a second shooter. military personnel say they are confident there was a holone gunman and that person is dead. as for the eight injured at least four described to us as in
grave condition or seriously injured. none of the gun shot victims are dead. the only person we believe is dead from this incident is the shooter. fort shohood is on lockdown as y do standard operating procedure to check in and see if there is a second gunman since there are eyewitness reports that claimed early on that that was the case. you have probably seen about the ideat that there was a warning of somebody, an fbi warning, a lookout that was put out having to do with a potential, somebody threatening a fort hood jihad situation. our own pete williams has a federal law enforcement official told him there is not a connection between today's shooting and the report on the fbi lookout notice having to do with this threat that had been put on a military base. just called it a fort hood style
shooting. i want to reiterate that according to a law enforcement official they say we know who that guy is, meaning they seem to be confident that it has no connection to this situation. i want to bring in former deputy director of the fbi. buck, again, i wanted to reiterate that. i know there is a lot of social media traffic about that situation. we have pete williams telling us there is no connection at all. explain what an fbi lookout is that was put out on a situation like this with what happened yesterday. do i have you, buck? i think i lost you there. let me bring in former fbi profiler. i have jim kavanagh with me.
jim, that report, fbi put out a lookout but obviously federal officials telling pete williams they have no connection because they use this quote we know who that guy is. >> absolutely. you know, they probably know where he is located and probably checked on him. i think pete's reporting would be spot on. i think they are not concerned about it or would probably have said something different to pete about it. it is unlikely that is involved. you notice information about stuff like that all the time. >> explain that. people are looking at it and going fbi put out a lookout notice for somebody who said this. how often is a lookout notice put out? >> we call it be on the lookout. they come across the teletype, the n.c.i.c. computer all the time.
there are lookouts for suicidal people, mentally unstable people. there are all kinds of lookouts all the time. yes, this is related to fort hood but fort hood is huge. it's the biggest military base. i have been on the base, it is like a city patrolled by its own civilian police force and military police. you have to consider it like a city. there are businesses. there are military functions, armor, all kinds of stuff going on there. so, you know, you can have multiple criminal activities like a guy who made a threat and separately a shooting, as well. >> let me just reset things a little bit. this shooting took place sometime before 5 p.m. it was around them fort hood put out a shelter in place notice to all personnel that there was an active shooter on the loose. over the last hour we learned
the initial report that claimed two shooters was not true. the military is operating on the assumption that it is a lone shooter. they believe that person is dead. and they obviously believe that that is the only shooter that exists. but there is law enforcement personnel going building by building to double check because of the early eyewitness reports. there are at least eight confirmed victims of the shooting. four of the injured are being described to be in grave condition at this point but we don't have any other further information than that. so, jim, let's go to the issue of you got a lone gunman. this happened five years earlier at fort hood. you operate under the assumption that this person might be thinking of a copy cat situation.
>> once command is established with fbi and c.i.d., base police, atf, u.s. marshals. you will set up a command and then you set major lead categories. and those categories will go around the things you are describing. any known connection to terrorism? does this guy have a criminal history? so the categories are major lead categories. we talk so much in the last month about the airplane in malaysia. that is the way you do that. you set major lead categories. terrorism, hijacking. you never let one go until the case is solved. you may want to look at one more or less here just like in the incident today but you have to pursue all of them until you get the facts to come and tell you what really happened.
>> this is sometimes the criticism of us who do breaking news, you deal with the information as it comes in. in some of that you are describing law enforcement officials are going to be giving us what they believe is the best information at the moment. we are churning it out and sharing it with the public. some of it changes over time. i want to go to clint, the former fbi profiler. we spent a lot of time early on about the reports of there being multiple shooters. now we are dealing with a lone gunman. something that is frankly too familiar to you in trying to figure out how to profile. so go through the motions of what you would be doing right now to try to figure out what you need to know. this person is dead now. that obviously limits the amount of information. >> it limits the information you can get from him. but as my friend jim kavanagh suggested we will be going
through his wallet, cell phones, computers, any social networking. let's say hypothetically this is something who did this because of some type of mental health conditi condition. there is a strong likelihood this person would review the thoughts or shared the thoughts with someone else. as soon as he is identified law enforcement will be going through his presumed vehicle that might have gotten him on the base, anything he is carrying with him. of course, he will also go to his residence and look through his computer. they will be trying to tie all of this together. there is always the possibility even though as we are told there is only one shooter. they have to find out if there is any type of conspiracy off the base that may exist as
opposed to just on the base. one more thing, we talked about one shooter, people suggesting two shooters. i remember back in november 2009 when major nidal hasan killed those 13 people on the same military base there was a lot of speculation there were two shooters because of all of the buildings. people were hearing the gun shots ricochetting off of the buildings. 180 degrees the opposite direction. it was simply the sound reflecting off but in a time like that when you think bullets are going over your head many times you don't have the chance to sit there and triangulate where the sound is coming from. >> i think we had the same conversation during the navy yard shooting because at that moment it was in the moment of when bullets were flying there was the assumption that there was second shooters. president obama has been informed and getting briefed.
he is going to be making a statement as soon as the tape is brought in, the president's statement we will air it when we get it. in the meantime we have new information being brought to us right now by my colleague pete williams. what do you have? >> we should emphasize all of the things we are saying this is still preliminary information. several officials told us the person who fired the shots at fort hood after shooting the number is still unclear to us then turned the gun on himself. so the gunman did shoot himself.
as for the identity of the gunman we still don't have a name. we ehave been told by a couple of officials that it was a person in uniform. now, whether that means it was a person actually in the military or not we don't know. a lot of people can get their hands on uniforms. but we were told this was a person in uniform and the authorities are investigating claims that this may have begun as an argument among people on the base. that is not confirmed. that is something that they are investigating. >> almost spontaneous situation, not something pre-planned. >> that would be -- if that turns out to be true, that would be the suggestion. >> are law enforcement still going building by building to just triple check that the early reports of a second shooter are not the case? >> that is beyond my brief. that would be something for mick to say. i don't know what is the current
situation on the ground. i'm just reporting what i heard about who the perhaps the motive or identity of the gunman. >> so the person was in uniform but not confirmed necessarily as a member of the military and believed that he turned the gun on himself. are we referring to this as a male? >> yes. >> pete williams, thank you very much on that. i know you are going to go back and get more for us. we are expecting comments from president obama shortly. he is making comments to the traveling press with him tonight in chicago. as soon as that tape is fed in we will bring that to you. we will be back right after this. i don't use super poligrip for hold because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. with just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat.
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place at fort hood in the last few hours. here is the best information that we have at this time. it is believed to be a lone gunman. pete williams reported a few minutes ago that officials believe this gunman after shooting, we don't know the full number, but we have confirmed eight at this point, eight different people shot, four of them described in very serious condition, after that shooting took place that it is believed that this person described to us as a male then turned the gun on himself and killed himself. that is why it is believed that the shooter is dead. secondly, the best we know at this point is that the shooter was wearing a military uniform. that does not mean it has been confirmed that this person is a member of the military. an official has also told pete williams and it is believed that this may have stemmed from an argument that started and then escalated to the situation we
have now, but that is just one source, not a full, complete. all of this could change and you know we are operating on this situation where we are getting information the best we got. we are sharing at that point. we put every caveat we could possibly have at this point. there is still as far as we know fort hood is in lockdown. at this point there is still an investigation and a search for the potential of a second gunman. because early reports indicated that people thought there was a second gunman. we have been through this situation before in the early reports in the navy yard turned out not to be true with the previous shooting in 2009 at fort hood turned out not to be true. it is believed it is not true here. standard operating procedure is to go building to building. i want to bring in a former c.i.a. agent.
larry, we go through this, fort hood again people are going what is going on, fort hood again, lone gunman last time and lone gunman this time. you having worked in counter terrorism i assume you are like everybody else i talk to in terrorism community conspiracies are easier to deal with than lone gun men. >> everybody needs to take a deep breath, calm down and let's go with the facts. because we can speculate -- i go back to the day when people were speculating about richard jewel as being a terrorist. it turns out he was in the atlanta olympic park bombing back in 1996 and later was exonerated. it is easy to make some wild declarations one way or another. the fact that he was in uniform makes it highly likely he was a soldier. these bases have controls. you either have to show military
i.d. or a card used by civilian contractors or some other i.d. then if you go through that i.d. process if you don't have a military i.d. you have your vehicle inspected and are suggested to that. this guy had to get access to the base and probably have a legitimate reason to be there. why he did it, we have had everything from higher number of suicides over the last several years, the stress level has eased up somewhat because ourops tempo has dropped overseas. you have had military under stress. so, you know, i prefer i guess not to get out there and try to play mind reader for this guy. >> i don't want to do that. i would want to know is how you would go about trying to -- you have the shooter is dead and so motivation is important to try to find out how you go about
doing it when you don't have anybody to interview? >> once you identify the person then you are going to find out who family members are and friends are and relatives are and backwards. one of the real ironies of these military bases, there's usually a surprising amount of firearms and weapons on the bases themselves. >> and that's done on -- that's by la? >> yeah. >> it's just -- well, both -- it's by law and part of it is also by training. even with young soldiers, there's a tendency that they can do things stupedly if -- so that's why weapons are tightly controlled, regulated and to make sure people exercise proper procedures. if someone decides they want to get on to a base, you do have the proper military i.d., can you get on there with a weapon, can you start shooting people. >> and obviously ft. hood, a
very large base, this is a city within the city. this is among where there's a lot of transient soldiers, frankly. soldiers getting ready to get shipped out, coming in. would you describe it, is it easier to get out of ft. hood because it's so large? >> the access points are the access points. and you have large bases all around the united states. like ft. brag is another example. can you get on there and it's really the difference between, are you showing up with a proper military i.d. or are you just showing up with a regular driver's license. if you had a regular driver's license, you're going to go through a more thorough screening process, if you're there with military and civilian contractor, it's easy for you to get on to the base with weaponsp and you can almost make the case, you may be better off.
at least that way you wouldn't have the prospect of one lone gunman trying to track him down. >> i want to share -- we'll put that to the side. share with folks what president obama said, the print poolers are already sharing this. there's no traveling with the president right know. as soon as we have the tape in we'll play it for you in full. here's what i can tell you he said. we're following this closely, the situation is fluent right now. this is president obama, i want to just reassure all of us that we are going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened and finally he shares, we're heart broken something like this might have happened again, particularly on ft. hood. and in fact, when you think about the fact that ft. hood again, do you look at this situation and assume coincidence
or then ask yourself, do we have a security issue here? what are the questions you'd be asking right now to the fact that we have ft. hood again. >> the news report earlier this week, there was an individual from kent city. >> let me pause you there, pete williams is already, we have federal officials totally saying that there is no connection to that specific individual with the federal official telling pete williams, we know where this guy -- we know who that guy is. >> my point with that is still, the federal officials are discounting that, they really don't know the full story on this individual and what his relationships are. so that's why i say any declaretive statement, all i'm laying out are possibilities, without saying it's definitely this, or -- it could be anything ranging from a deranged person who was hallucinating and
hearing voices telling him to do it, to somebody who had a clear plan and purpose. you know, that's sort of the book ends. and that's all that we know at this point. so what happens now is, who will have the lead in investigating this, and i'm not sure -- you have the jurisdictional issue. >> let me ask you this. the fbi could get involved. >> i've been discussing this issue of that, like which law enforcement agency would be in charge. buck rah develop from the fbi seemed to think, if it is a member of the military, automatically, that's army cid, does that make sense to you? >> army cid, yes, unless this individual is well -- if he's not in the military -- >> right, not a member of the military, a civilian. i think there's the potential for some overlapping jurisdictions, we've seen this really across the board with,
even terrorist incidents in the past. there's always a bit of a bureaucratic food fight that breaks out in the world trade center bombing, and then you get to the issues in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, where local new york officials were asserting themselves and warning off military folks. there will be the inevitable bureaucratic jockeying for position in this. i'll have to sort it out, who is in charge. once they have that established. then the investigation starts. it's a criminal investigation and has to be pursued as such. >> let me keep you on the phone there. i want to bring in our pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. all right, mik, we had pete's reporting about self, they believe the lone shooter killed himself after shooting at least eight people. what more information do you have? >> right now all we have is that
information. we understand now that federal officials are confirming the identity of that individual a 34-year-old ivan lopez, it was reported he was in uniform. until they absolutely identify this shooter, who as you say, killed himself, it's not clear that anybody is going to, with the military, has been able to confirm that any military service or enlistment or anything of the sort. now, among the 8 wounded. we are told that at least half of those are an extremely grave condition, and you can read into that what you like. but so far, they're not confirming that any of those wounded were actually killed. and it appears that this was some kind of dispute with people on the motor pool, according to federal officials, and had no connection apparently to any
kind -- we were told by one military official, there's no indication that there's any connection to any kind of terrorist activity, jihadist, revenge of any kind reminiscent of the 2009 shooting in which 13 soldiers were killed and 32 were wounded in that incident with major -- army major nadal hassan. the investigation continues, much of the base still remains under lockdown as a precaution, only. but again, it appears that the shooting incident at ft. hood is trajically -- has resulted in a tragic end so far. >> i want to go back to the name you gave -- >> military officials are still not confirming any names. >> they're not confirming any names? >> no. and we don't know. we know this individual, this
man was wearing a military uniform, but no confirmation yet that he was a member of the military, jim miklaszewski at the pentagon. >> one could assume if he was on the bhas in the motor pool, he was. but the army is being very tight lipped about any information about this incident? >> and just to reconfirm, the lockdown is still on, and the precautionary search for any potential second gunman is still taking place, literally out of precaution. and that's the latest you have on that? >> as of 15 minutes ago, that was the case, we have yet to have any kind of confirmation from the military that that lockdown has been lifted. >> the issue of the -- that this may have stemmed from an argument, obviously more spontaneous than not. and when you say the motor pool, none of these members of the military are supposed to be carrying firearms, are they not? in the area that this happened? >> that's not always the case, if you have access to the base
as a soldier, as a uniformed soldier, you could easily be carrying a weapon and not be frisked not have to go through any medal detector. it's the reality of being on a military base. there are weapons on the base. when an incident like this, when apparently things just explode, they end in fatalities, we've seen it before. there was an incident in tennessee at a naval base, where there -- an argument broke out among three sailors and suddenly shooting began. you know, broke out. >> none of them were supposed to be carrying anything? >> i mean, it was against military -- >> you're not bro hib ited necessarily, but it's not normal to be walking the base in a job like that to have a weapon, you're right. >> all right, jim miklaszewski with the latest from the pentagon. your phone's ringing, you better go get it. i want to thank pete
williams, don clark, our coverage will continue now. alex wagner and all in is next. the ft. hood army base is on lockdown after a shooting earlier today. shots broke out sometime before 5:00 p.m. eastern. shortly afterwards, ft. hood ordered everyone on base to shelter in place. a u.s. military official has told nbc news the incident involves a single shooter. earlier reports of two shooters on the premises appear to be incorrect. sources now tell nbc news that they believe that single shooter has died from a self-inflicted wound. at least eight people are known to be wounded four are thought to be in grave condition. authorities are continuing to search and clear buildings out of an abundance of caution. the fbi is on scene at ft. hood, the president and secretary of defense have been informed of the situation. the president has made a statement and we will have